tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post2465905589771067277..comments2024-03-28T12:17:52.010+00:00Comments on Katabasis: You can support the Open Rights Group...as long as you're not white and maleKatabasishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-54056189663063490492013-08-28T21:21:37.732+00:002013-08-28T21:21:37.732+00:00Good news, she's now a former member of staff,...Good news, she's now a former member of staff, though you have to wonder how many more there are like her within the organisation. People like that don't get into positions of influence without others in the organisation at least partially sharing their extreme views.<br /><br />Source:<br />http://www.openrightsgroup.org/people/former-staffAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-43108589187208647022012-08-29T18:38:12.796+00:002012-08-29T18:38:12.796+00:00Hi Anon,
I got that reply above in the comments fr...Hi Anon,<br />I got that reply above in the comments from Jim Killock before I even had the chance to send the letter. I took that as the final word - namely that he couldn't see a problem, would cover for her and nothing would change. Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-48738805946254526552012-08-28T18:18:45.577+00:002012-08-28T18:18:45.577+00:00Did you ever send a letter? Or receive a response?...Did you ever send a letter? Or receive a response?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-37289386071436167252012-08-25T23:39:35.280+00:002012-08-25T23:39:35.280+00:00I didn't know if it was her personal opinion, ...I didn't know if it was her personal opinion, or that of Open Rights Group but it was concerning that I couldn't differentiate between either. But it isn't about her that is most concerning, or that I'm concerned about, but ORG. If ORG is unwilling to adapt, it's unfair to those it claims to represent <i>and</i> to itself. If ORG continues to disappoint, would it be justifiable to create another bearing a similar remit?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-34365275127090257002012-08-24T08:19:20.466+00:002012-08-24T08:19:20.466+00:00Thanks for that addition Anon:
"She had also...Thanks for that addition Anon:<br /><br /><i>"She had also said that she didn't think it was appropriate that Julian Assange should attend it because she considered him to be dangerous because of unsubstantiated allegations. She's a presumptuous bigot."</i><br /><br />- Good grief, really? She's 'all in' isn't she?Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-65247639363073234812012-08-23T11:50:57.297+00:002012-08-23T11:50:57.297+00:00She had also said that she didn't think it was...She had also said that she didn't think it was appropriate that Julian Assange should attend it because she considered him to be dangerous because of unsubstantiated allegations. She's a presumptuous bigot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-71488363479085188862012-08-22T18:36:37.137+00:002012-08-22T18:36:37.137+00:00I'm not going to argue that it shouldn't e...I'm not going to argue that it shouldn't exist, because I think it's obvious that the issues Open Rights Group claims to represent and those it claims to represent understand its importance. But if Open Rights Group isn't going to do as it claims, it's difficult to argue <i>its</i> existence unless it's able to demonstrate that it's capable of doing so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-63297681961736956432012-08-22T07:34:14.427+00:002012-08-22T07:34:14.427+00:00Just coming back after our fb encounter - I though...Just coming back after our fb encounter - I thought I'd get an email for replies to this post, sorry I missed it and thanks for responding thoughtfully.Dolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17110810881843699172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-54973401240192839262012-08-22T01:17:49.407+00:002012-08-22T01:17:49.407+00:00It's mired by self-interest and misguided egos...It's mired by self-interest and misguided egos and I don't trust it. What is unfortunate is that it continues to be cited as being an accurate representation of those concerned about issues it discusses by mainstream media, but it doesn't. It's unwilling to do anything if it isn't benefiting those within Open Rights Group. I don't understand it's Advisory Council's purpose either - its activities aren't discussed - and its Supporter Council doesn't exist; rather it was due to begin doing something, but since being announced 2 months ago, it hasn't done anything. Was it due to disinterest? Or was it just because it was realised that it would be doing work that Open Rights Group should already have been doing itself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-19812035611060440282012-04-02T14:36:23.513+00:002012-04-02T14:36:23.513+00:00K,
The comment you have in your spambox is not on...K,<br /><br />The comment you have in your spambox is not one of mine.<br /><br />CR.Captain Rantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07839241144954596066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-22153703296234800242012-04-01T13:28:03.468+00:002012-04-01T13:28:03.468+00:00""Idiots exist on the left. A percentage...<i>""Idiots exist on the left. A percentage of those idiots are female. I met one in a pub." That's the story?"</i><br /><br />- There are too many people like Nishma out there - and she's in a position of influence. That's the problem. Added to the fact that groups such as ORG seem happy to tolerate her offensive views (leading to perverse consequences such as an unequal application of the law - Diane Abbott and Lee Jasper get to say what they want whilst Liam Stacey is sent down), that's an even bigger problem. And the story. It's telling that you don't seem to have an issue with her views yourself and are instead hand-wringing over my writing this blog entry.<br /><br /><i>"Or is her behaviour somehow a prism reflecting the general idiocy of the rest of us lefties?"</i><br /><br />- I'm presuming you went blind at the points where I qualified this such as "Fortunately throughout the day I met a handful of friendly left leaning people with whom I found a lot of common ground."<br /><br /><br /><br /> <i>"And what the bejeesus is cultural Marxism?"</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com" rel="nofollow">JFGI</a><br /><br /><i> "Is it something I exude as a leftie without knowing it?"</i><br /><br />- I have no idea as it has been a long time since I saw you in person. You seem to be happy to tolerate people like Nishma so, yes.<br /><br /><i>"Not to mention, of course, every single one of us *has* been an idiot, on more than one occasion, especially in pubs after political meetings. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, yes, even you. I know I have."</i><br /><br />- No shit. Really?<br /><br /><i>" Are you really comfortable with this public character assassination?"</i><br /><br />- It's a description of her behaviour. Am I not permitted to write about people's bad behaviour or offensive claims Dan? Would it presumably be better to dig a hole, sit in it and wuss out like - presumably - you would do? A character assasination would involve a whole lot more ad hominems and probably a lot of exaggerations and untrue claims. What I've described above are her closely held beliefs, which she has expressed multiple times and in multiple formats. It wasn't a one of lapse of judgement as you are disingenuously attempting to imply.<br /><br /><i> "Apologies for how much this is going to annoy you, but I couldn't help but think: "Continuing to be the Gerard Butler of the right, as per your header image, good work.""</i><br /><br />- 'When someone says 'but' you should disregard everything said before it'. Man up and say what you mean for once Dan instead of offering limp-wristed and meaningless apologies that you don't mean. The header image is supposed to invoke the spirit of Leonidas not Gerard Butler. I'm not sure how that fact escaped you. I have no idea what point you're poorly attempting to make anyway.<br /><br /><i>"If ever we meet and you for a moment lose your rag at my warmist cultural marxist ramblings, would you be comfortable with me blogging about you in the same way? (Not that anyone reads my blog, but you know what I mean!)"</i><br /><br />- Do what you want. People are used to seeing me lose my rag in public. That's me. No one will be surprised. And you are again - spuriously - attempting to imply that this was a one off from Nishma. Why? What's your real angle here Dan?Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-65369106816098888812012-03-31T12:04:02.436+00:002012-03-31T12:04:02.436+00:00"Idiots exist on the left. A percentage of th..."Idiots exist on the left. A percentage of those idiots are female. I met one in a pub." That's the story? Or is her behaviour somehow a prism reflecting the general idiocy of the rest of us lefties? And what the bejeesus is cultural Marxism? Is it something I exude as a leftie without knowing it?<br /><br />Not to mention, of course, every single one of us *has* been an idiot, on more than one occasion, especially in pubs after political meetings. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, yes, even you. I know I have. Are you really comfortable with this public character assassination? Apologies for how much this is going to annoy you, but I couldn't help but think: "Continuing to be the Gerard Butler of the right, as per your header image, good work."<br /><br />If ever we meet and you for a moment lose your rag at my warmist cultural marxist ramblings, would you be comfortable with me blogging about you in the same way? (Not that anyone reads my blog, but you know what I mean!)Dolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17110810881843699172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-31062218122498572672012-03-28T10:40:41.205+00:002012-03-28T10:40:41.205+00:00Outstanding Jim.
So let's summarise here:
i...Outstanding Jim. <br /><br />So let's summarise here:<br /><br />i) no condemnation of her views (it's just unfortunate she got called on them for once, right?)<br /><br />ii) "a public forum is not an appropriate place to raise them." - I'd really like to know why not. Especially as it is important for others (i.e. us evil right wing white males) to know what one of your most prominent members of staff really thinks about us.<br /><br />iii) "Some of the remarks made here are extremely personal and upsetting"<br /><br />Diddums. Nishma's remarks were extremely upsetting too and part of a continual pattern not just from her but also with many others like her who appear to prosper without penalty at left-dominated organisations. <br /><br />If you're referring here to some of the things I've written, then good. I purposefully included those comments in anticipation that at least one of you would claim "offence" whilst at the same time failing to condemn Nishma's utterly offensive tripe. <br /><br />Congratulations on sinking to my low expectations.<br /><br />As you *are* the executive director of ORG I'll take your word as the final one. Which means you passively tolerate Nishma's views and are only sorry she got caught.<br /><br />Your organisation is not deserving of support from us right wingers (or white males more generally apparently, unless I guess they join the rest of you in wilful self flagellation for having the misfortune of being born white and male) and I will continue to advocate a boycott.Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-31929668993124492612012-03-28T10:13:42.301+00:002012-03-28T10:13:42.301+00:00Hi there,
I'm Executive Director of the Open ...Hi there,<br /><br />I'm Executive Director of the Open Rights Group.<br /><br />ORG maintains close relationships with as many sympathetic MPs from as many parties as we can. We work with people from all parties and none. We have Conservative voters on our Advisory Council, although at current, no MPs, and we will continue to seek input from Conservatives and libertarians. I personally have worked with UKIP MEPs on ACTA and copyright in the past. We also have close relations with Liberal Democrat, Labour and Green politicians: ORG is strictly non-partisan, because our issues effect everyone. We will always welcome people to support ORG from all political walks of life.<br /><br />I am very sorry to hear about your experience and want to be clear that Nishma was not speaking for ORG. I have spoken to her about this and she agrees that her personal opinions should not have been expressed in an ORG setting.<br /><br />However, whatever complaints that anyone has with an ORG staff member, a public forum is not an appropriate place to raise them. Some of the remarks made here are extremely personal and upsetting. I would ask anyone who has a complaint about ORG to discuss it with me or ORG's Board in the first instance, and allow us the opportunity to respond and put things right.<br /><br />I'm sorry to hear that you'll no longer be supporting us, and hope that you'll reconsider.Jim Killockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08855906721158122490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-90849024814373027922012-03-26T21:04:16.896+00:002012-03-26T21:04:16.896+00:00Two observations :
1. Ms doshi doesn't sound t...Two observations :<br />1. Ms doshi doesn't sound too bright. Having a big mouth and using her gender as a shield for what she says doesn't make one worth listening to.<br />2. if she was a man, I know a few pubs where she'd have been well and truly flattened for her outburst.john in cheshirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00179825507377423624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-53098589369232384702012-03-26T17:38:19.798+00:002012-03-26T17:38:19.798+00:00And the racist, sexist useful idiot responds! -
...And the racist, sexist useful idiot responds! -<br /> <br />"@mkpdavies I'm @kata_basis doesn't know the difference between recognising oppression and hate."<br /><br />"@kata_basis This is the only response I'm going to give you: I define myself as a feminist and a seeker of social justice. I don't flame."<br /><br />Well that's alright then, isn't it? <br /><br />FFS.Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-48868429433960983032012-03-26T14:42:36.063+00:002012-03-26T14:42:36.063+00:00Full Twitter exchange with Owen Black from the ORG...Full Twitter exchange with Owen Black from the ORG advisory board. Note use of the 'she was tired' and 'something she said out of turn' defences as if these aren't core and regularly expressed beliefs for her:<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />" I'll write something longer on this later, but ORG is an apartisan broad church. We need you guys on the right just as much...as people like me on the left. Whilst I (as an AC member and Board candidate) agree with Nishma on many issues.. she was not speaking for ORG there. We recognise that the issues we work with cannot be fixed by one side of politics alone"<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />"It went without saying that she wasn't speaking for ORG. But you tolerate her sexist, racist and bigoted views nonetheless."<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />"We tolerate all kinds of views that aren't relevant to "our" issues, so long as they don't get in the way of the campaigns... I would be surprised if the same weren't true of most political parties."<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />" So Nick Griffin would be welcome to work for ORG?"<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />" That's not what I said and you know it's not."<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />" apparently it is. Nishma expresses sexist, racist and bigoted views but of a variety that is OK by you."<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />"No, not ok by me. But not something I'm going to flay her about in public. Quiet words are usually more effective... I agree that, from your characterisation, what she said was unacceptable, but I don't believe it merits boycotting ORG"<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />" not good enough. Those cultural marxist views are often held and unchallenged in left dominated groups. Enough is enough....this wasn't some exceptional outburst. These are her deeply held beliefs. Which her peers either share or tolerate."<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />"ORG is not a Marxist group and is widely welcoming of all political views. It you would like to use the in-the-pub views....of one person self-evidently not talking ex cathedra to tar the whole of an organisation, there's no point in continuing... this conversation."<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />" Utterly laughable. This is your main point of contact we're talking about here. "welcoming of all political views" eh."<br /><br />@owenblacker:<br />"They are words she said in the pub—not ex cathedra—after a very long day where she's organised a very successful event..... I do understand your point of view, but I do think you're overreacting. Sorry, we're going to have to agree to differ...She is not our executive director, she is one of the people involved in ORG. Now I'm sorry, but I have a day-job to be do"<br /><br />@kata_basis:<br />"thanks for a perfectly lame non-response that would sit well with our political class in the face of similar circumstances....you've confirmed my reasons for boycotting ORG and many others will see it the same way too."Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-52898110330074873552012-03-26T07:58:22.457+00:002012-03-26T07:58:22.457+00:00The "joke" is that this PC stuff (the fo...The "joke" is that this PC stuff (the formal name is "idenity politics") was created by white males (and well off ones at that).<br /><br />The Frankfurt School of Marxism (which became the New York School of Social Research) created all this cultural Marxism stuff (using the politics of race, sex.....) as far back as the 1920s.<br /><br />"Middle class elitists have taken over the left".<br /><br />Errrr who were the Webbs? And who were George Berard Shaw and H.G. Wells?Paul Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18376632035812989444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-38794285559317653122012-03-25T21:01:53.504+00:002012-03-25T21:01:53.504+00:00@Woodsy,
Yes I do agree for the most part. I ofte...@Woodsy,<br /><br />Yes I do agree for the most part. I often think back to the SWP and Anti Nazi League people I used to know 15+ years ago and simply can't imagine them in the same room as today's crop without an almighty punch up. <br /><br />@James<br /><br />Sorry James I couldn't remember who I heard say it recently otherwise I would have credited you. ;)<br /><br />I totally agree there are some that are open and intelligent enough to work with people outside their immediate political village and I'd certainly agree with those you name.<br /><br />Also I often find myself in the company of tories for the same reasons you identify. The only awkward point is they have a propensity to go to smart dos where things like bow-ties are mandatory and that's really not my thing. ;)Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-74306913482785583342012-03-25T20:55:07.293+00:002012-03-25T20:55:07.293+00:00'The Left will eat itself' - that's MY...'The Left will eat itself' - that's MY line! :o I name Nicholas Jones as my witness. Glad its use is spreading ;)<br />witter.com/#!/nishmadoshi<br />Sign up for Twitter to follow Nishma Doshi (@NishmaDoshi). Feminist. Grassroots. Activist & Campaigner. Postcolonialist. Alterglobalisationist. Geek.<br /><br />Tells you all you need to know, really. <br />It's a shame. As you point out Cory Doctorow is excellent. <br />There are some Lefties one can work with on issues - Peter Tatchell on free speech for example. Even Maryam Namazie at the last Free Speech demo was relatively unpartisan (and she is personally likeable). So many on the Left are bitter, unpleasant people. You attend their meetings and their back is up, deeply suspicious while they go through a checklist to see if you are PC enough for them. I encountered no such bottom-sniffing when I first went to libertarian meetings. <br />While do I end up hanging out and chatting to Tories and right-wingers when my views are often radically divergent from theirs? It is because they are less judgemental and better mannered.There are exceptions on both sides obviously and there ARE people on the Left one can work with but Angela Harbutt's excellent article on the Yes to Av campaign failure <a href="http://www.liberal-vision.org/2011/05/08/the-humiliation-of-the-yes-campaign/>The humiliation of the Yes campaign</a>James Oliver Deckardhttps://www.facebook.com/jodeckardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-48653359791876251792012-03-25T20:43:19.502+00:002012-03-25T20:43:19.502+00:00"The left will eat itself. "
Then I wis..."The left will eat itself. "<br /><br />Then I wish they would hurry up and get on with it!<br />But be fair Katabasis, these people are not actually left. They are middle class elitists, progresives and their fellow traveller who have hi-jacked the traditional political left field.<br />My grandfather was a staunch left winger, a working man and labour party supporter all his life. Were he around today he would find these people as offensive as you do.Woodsy42https://www.blogger.com/profile/12355671210161625647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-46846675324686459102012-03-25T20:07:18.217+00:002012-03-25T20:07:18.217+00:00Many thanks for that comment Anonymous.
And yes I...Many thanks for that comment Anonymous.<br /><br />And yes I agree. The left will eat itself.Katabasishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02059375486530788092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25138780.post-44860423709736172502012-03-25T19:31:27.420+00:002012-03-25T19:31:27.420+00:00A genuine pity to hear that yet another libertaria...A genuine pity to hear that yet another libertarian has given up even trying to co-operate with parts of the Left where there is agreement.<br /><br />But, you're not at fault. The behaviour of the leftist you describe is not uncommon, alas.<br /><br />I've concluded that many Lefties' contempt of Tories is simply drawn from no less an irrational basis than a racist's loathing for other races or a homophobe's loathing for gays. Doesn't matter what wing of the Party they're from, doesn't matter where they've come from in life - they're Tory, ergo "the enemy".<br /><br />And why do they do it? To feel self-righteous? To establish themselves as politically "pure" among their peers? Or is it because they're actually just plain stupid?<br /><br />It's sad, really. One can't help but pity these people. They help condemn their own causes to failure (superb point about the YEStoAV group's monumentally stupid blunder in ignoring UKIP) and rail against groups among whom there are people actually prepared to help.<br /><br />But will they all ever learn? No, they're too indoctrinated, too full of self-righteous angry. Theirs is the rage of Caliban.<br /><br />Move on from them. They're doomed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com